Megumi Wakabayashi, former editor-in-chief of WIRED Japan and founder of content production company Kurotori Inc., launched a new project with Sony called "trialog." The fourth installment of their talk event series, trialog vol. 4, "On Alternative Economies: The New Relationship Between Money and Creativity," was held on Tuesday, November 6, 2018, at EDGEof in Shibuya, Tokyo.

This fourth session focused on "Alternative Economies: The New Relationship Between Money and Creativity," targeting working adults under 30, students, and job seekers, and featured three talk sessions. Guests included tofubeats, active as a music producer, DJ, and entrepreneur; Keiichiro Matsumura, cultural anthropologist and associate professor at Okayama University's Faculty of Letters; Yoshitaka Yasui, President and CEO of Origami; and Kiichi Nakamura, Representative Director and CTO of BrainCat—individuals not confined by a narrow definition of "economy." Alongside them, Hiroaki Kitano, President and CEO of Sony Computer Science Laboratories, Inc., Tetsuya Mizuguchi, trialog co-planner and CEO of Enhance, and Megumi Wakabayashi, trialog representative and blkswn content director, engaged in a discussion about the future of money, work, creativity, and happiness.

○ Talk Event Content

SESSION 1: How Technology Changes How We Work
Yoshitaka Yasui × Kiichi Nakamura × Megumi Wakabayashi
In SESSION 1, Yoshitaka Yasui, President and CEO of Origami; Kiichi Nakamura, Representative Director and CTO of BrainCat, who is involved in the mutual aid community service "GOJO"; and Megumi Wakabayashi took the stage to delve into discussions about "money" from the perspectives of finance, economy, and work styles.

■ Origami's Yasui on "Money and Business"
Yasui mentioned he first started thinking about "money" at the age of 16. "For example, spending 5,000 yen at a restaurant is a luxury, and spending 20,000 yen on a trip is also a luxury. However, spending 20,000 yen on sneakers wasn't a luxury. This means what's important is whether you consider it an asset. Financially speaking, it's crucial what you gain in return for spending money," he explained. "While creating memories through travel is very important and wonderful," he continued, "the memories from a 100,000 yen trip don't come back as a return. But a designer bag bought for 100,000 yen might be resold for 130,000 yen," he revealed his perspective on "money" from his financial viewpoint.

■ BrainCat's Nakamura on "Meaningful Labor" and "Why Do We Work?"
Nakamura, conversely, presented an antithesis: "While it's common to earn money in return for labor, there are also people who pay to work." He elaborated, "For example, GOJO has a community of volunteers working to revitalize public bathhouses. Some members pay a monthly fee of 4,000 yen and travel from Hokkaido to Tokyo once a month to continue their activities. There's no monetary reward, but they do it because they love public baths, feel a sense of accomplishment from revitalizing them, and from achieving results within that community. This means we must consider that humans are motivated not only by 'economic rewards' but also by 'meaningful rewards' derived from labor."
Yasui further added, "I often think about 'Why do we work?' We spend about 80% of our waking hours working and then go home. If the reason is solely money or career, I think that's too sad. While that's one value system, having a greater purpose or mission is important for a fulfilling life." Nakamura echoed this sentiment, stating, "When I was a freelance engineer, the market was favorable, and there were many jobs with good compensation. However, my criterion for choosing work was whether it was interesting, rather than the pay." Both speakers shared similar values regarding work.

SESSION 2: Future Company, Future Society
tofubeats × Tetsuya Mizuguchi × Megumi Wakabayashi
In SESSION 2, tofubeats, who is not only a music producer and DJ but also a company founder and "manager"; Tetsuya Mizuguchi, CEO of Enhance, who has released numerous innovative games, manages multiple companies, and proposes new organizational structures and work styles; and Megumi Wakabayashi took the stage to discuss the relationship between companies, work styles, and creativity.

■ Company Employees and Creativity Are Incompatible.
At the outset, Wakabayashi posed the question, "What are the merits and demerits of a company?" Mizuguchi responded, drawing from his own career, "One of the advantages of being in a large company is that there's less risk." After leaving, he realized the intricacies of the tax system. By entrusting matters like rights and finances to others, he could focus on creative work, but ultimately, he wanted to integrate that with business. "To create good work, you need to build a good team. Furthermore, to do that, you need to establish a good system. For example, to work with truly talented individuals, you must create a system for returning profits," he stated. tofubeats added, "I believe having a sense of ownership is important. While it might be possible to have a sense of ownership within a large agency or company, the best way to foster that sense of ownership in myself was to 'go independent.'" Mizuguchi further elaborated, "The company system and creativity are incompatible. Even if you create excellent work within a company, it all gets reset when you leave." He explained, "Companies operate on wage labor, where you receive wages even if you don't work hard—in fact, not working hard might be more advantageous. However, this is fatal for creativity," he concluded, discussing the incompatibility between companies, work styles, and creativity.

■ Money with a Story and Money Without. What is the New Form of Money and Creativity?
A question from the audience asked, "Will 'money' remain important in the coming evaluation economy?" tofubeats replied, "Certainly, in the evaluation economy, what you can create as a creative and your reputation and trust are important, but the 'money' that serves as the engine—the capital for production—is equally crucial." Mizuguchi then presented his theory: "I sometimes wish money had a color." He elaborated, "Money imbued with sentiment is different from money that isn't. For instance, money that grows through interest in a bank is distinct from money with a story, like that raised through crowdfunding. I believe money should have different colors based on its function, allowing for more varied uses. I feel that the future of 'new forms of money and creativity' lies beyond crowdfunding." Both tofubeats and Wakabayashi nodded in agreement.


SESSION 3: The Alternative of Capitalism
Keiichiro Matsumura × Hiroaki Kitano × Megumi Wakabayashi
In SESSION 3, Keiichiro Matsumura, cultural anthropologist and associate professor at Okayama University's Faculty of Letters; Hiroaki Kitano, President and CEO of Sony Computer Science Laboratories, Inc.; and Megumi Wakabayashi took the stage to discuss economy and happiness, incorporating perspectives from cultural anthropology.

■ A New Movement, or a Historical Recurrence? Questioning "Revolution" Through Cultural Anthropology.
Matsumura stated, "Society 5.0 is currently being promoted by the government. While there have been revolutions since the hunter-gatherer era of 1.0, from a cultural anthropology perspective, we must not mistake what is truly a 'revolution.' It's essential to discern the catalyst for a revolution and its true essence." He continued, "In SESSION 1, it was mentioned that Japan and Germany are still cash-based societies and lag behind the world. However, tracing civilization reveals that it actually began with cashless societies. Concepts akin to modern credit were mainstream, with cash emerging later. The Middle Ages saw societies based on credit money and virtual currencies, and then during the Age of Discovery, it shifted back to cash-based societies. Therefore, credit money and virtual currencies can be seen not as 'new movements' but as 'recurrences.' This means we cannot simply say Japan and Germany are lagging behind." Kitano and Wakabayashi were both impressed, remarking, "That's interesting."

■ Societal Wealth and Human Happiness.
Continuing from the topic of revolution, Matsumura noted, "The advent of new technologies like the information revolution, which brings about various changes, does not necessarily correlate directly with human happiness." Kitano concurred, stating, "To a certain extent, infrastructure such as healthcare, sanitation, and education is necessary, but beyond a certain level, studies show a diminishing correlation between increased GDP per capita and happiness. While the metric of GDP is convenient, we need to understand what it can and cannot measure." Matsumura added, "For example, comparing someone earning 10,000 yen with someone earning 1,000,000 yen, we cannot definitively say the latter is happier. While GDP is a convenient metric, it has become detached from our lived experiences." He further pointed out, "When considering societal matters, thinking about systems is different from thinking about the people interacting within society. Systems and structures are merely frameworks; they do not inherently lead to personal happiness. For instance, everyone doesn't become happy just because society becomes cashless. The system itself and how one lives within that system are entirely separate issues." Kitano concluded by applying this to Japan: "In Japan's case, rather than further increasing economic efficiency, I believe promoting diversity and sustainability would lead to greater happiness for everyone."


■ trialog Twitter Account: @trialog_project (https://twitter.com/trialog_project)
■ trialog Website: https://trialog-project.com/
■ trialog Concept Movie:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJW5ECNQtw