To be healthy and stylish—that's the best.

──Actually, it was Rie who first requested, "I really want to talk with Matsuura-san," to make this conversation happen.

MatsuuraReally!?

RieYes, really! (laughs)

MatsuuraI really wanted to talk with you too.

RieIs that so? (laughs)

MatsuuraWhen THREE debuted, I met with someone from PR, and I thought, "This is the direction cosmetics need to go in from now on." There are so few cosmetics available now that are truly usable. When THREE was introduced, I thought, "This is it!" It's rare to find something natural, with color, a great foundation texture, and even cute packaging, anywhere in the world. So, I really wanted THREE to succeed. I think I spoke quite passionately then... (laughs).

RieAnd I was like, "I'll do my best!" (laughs)

──What was the catalyst for you, Rie-san, to start wanting to mix a sense of mode into natural cosmetics?



At that moment, I thought, "So what do I want to do?" And I realized I want to make people beautiful. I love makeup, and I love fashion. But what about the people who actually wear that fashion? I started to think about that. When I moved from Paris to New York, I saw even more people who seemed mismatched, unbalanced.

──You mean a balance between their outer appearance and inner self?

RieYes, exactly. Even beautiful models, many had truly ugly inner selves. They were beautiful, but not beautiful. So, what could I do for them? Was it listening to them, or teaching them what to eat? As I delved deeper into these questions, I realized that being a makeup artist isn't just about applying makeup; I needed to find a different approach. Ultimately, I arrived at the obvious conclusion: being physically fit and healthy is important. There was a time when being thin, unhealthy, and druggy was considered cool, right? But that's not it. I believe being healthy is the most beautiful. If you can be healthy and still be stylish, isn't that enjoyable?
But mixing those things is natural, isn't it? Madonna has been doing yoga for a long time, and Sting has been practicing Ashtanga yoga for about 30 years. How old is he? Around 60?

MatsuuraYeah, maybe around 60?

RieHe's aging so well. In the past, rock stars were expected to do drugs, but now, rock stars do yoga, run marathons, eat organic food, and are healthy. That's what felt most aligned with my own style, that's all.

What you're passionate about leads to the ultimate ecstasy.

MatsuuraI understand. As a hairdresser, I fundamentally love being at the salon. So, I've keenly felt the difference between the scenes I see at the salon and those I see during fashion shoots. At one point, I was struck by the wonderfulness of the people I see at the salon, and the world of fashion photography felt very ungrounded. It's fantasy, and it's wonderful, but there was a sense of discomfort, like, "Someone else could do this." I love fashion myself, though.

Being at the salon is a continuous series of moments where you think, "What can I do for this person?" "What does this person need?" And if you become even slightly condescending, it all falls apart. You have to humbly internalize what the other person wants, and then, after satisfying your own ego, create a story that satisfies them too... otherwise, joy will never be born. It becomes one-sided, like a favor. So, to find joy, you have to compete with yourself to see how much your ego can be satisfied. It's a process of overcoming your own hurdles, day after day. There's no finish line in sight, ever. I'm always engrossed in doing something, so I'm in a dream now, and I want to stay in a dream in the future.

I think being engrossed in something means maintaining the mindset of a child, that "innocence." People tend to lose their "innocence" and become full of "malice." In my case, hair styling is the work where I try to create a joyful relationship while doing something without a clear answer. It's no good to unilaterally impose what I think is best, and even if the client loves it, if my own sense of completion and satisfaction is low, it's not a true connection. It's not the ultimate ecstasy. I want to interact with each client until I am personally satisfied. I suspect you're the same, Rie-san. You're the type who can't cut corners, right?

RieI can't cut corners, no.

MatsuuraMe neither. That's why it's so exhausting.

RieIt is exhausting (laughs). Intellectually, I think, "I should just stop here." And I could get by that way, but there's a part of me that just can't (laughs).

MatsuuraIt's just our nature not to be able to do that. I really understand.

RieBut isn't it all about making people beautiful? That's what makes the exhaustion disappear. I want to feel, "Wonderful!" or "Beautiful!" innocently within myself. I remember being told as a child, "As an adult, you must control your emotions." But it's not like that; the more you become an adult, the more you need to be moved by things, otherwise your own heart will rust. The "in" in "innocence" is important, I think.



RieThat's right. You can't orchestrate meeting one person to meet another... (laughs). But there are people who can feel the connections they make, and people who can't. Do you just pass them by thinking, "Yeah, it's natural," or do you feel "This is wonderful!" and feel gratitude and emotion?

MatsuuraWe have various emotions within ourselves, don't we?

RieYes, yes. With just a slight difference, we can become very positive or very negative.

MatsuuraExactly, it's really just a matter of your perspective. I want to be grateful for what I have rather than what I lack. If you push yourself too hard, it can feel hypocritical.

RieMm. Like saying nice things.

MatsuuraYou can't do more than yourself, and you can't do less than yourself, so expressing yourself as you are is the only answer. That's what I've been feeling keenly these days.

Rather than thinking, "What is right?" think, "What brings joy?"

──There are many people in the world who don't know what their true selves are, aren't there? People who go on a "self-search." Do you have any advice for them?

RieI think it takes courage to be yourself. Why does it take courage? Because we are constantly being judged by others. In our work, by clients, by partners. We fear being judged or criticized when we let down our guard and open ourselves up. But it's about how you receive that judgment. Everyone will always judge. First, you need to know what you want to be, what you want to do. Surprisingly, expressing that can also be a kindness to those around you. Of course, consideration is important, but constantly showing a version of yourself that is different from the truth isn't a lie, but it's not kind. Showing your true self also means being strict with yourself, but if you can balance those things, being yourself is the easiest thing in the world.

MatsuuraHmm, being strict with yourself might be the wrong way to put it. Rather than strict, it's about being honest. If you're honest with yourself, rather than waiting for the evaluation of "uncool," that's being most yourself. Sorry, I just stated the obvious (laughs).



RieThere are. But when you open your chest by arching your shoulders back, stress is released.

MatsuuraEven in daily life, our backs tend to round, don't they? We get used to our backs being rounded, and opening our shoulders feels more daunting. In Ayurveda, too, if you have Vata, Pitta, and Kapha, I don't think the person with a perfect triangular balance is necessarily correct; even an irregular shape is fine. I'm sometimes told I'm "too Vata-dominant," but for example, if someone was Vata-dominant as a child, they might be better off returning to a Vata state as an adult. Remembering who you were as a child and returning your lifestyle to that is the best way to prevent mental illness. It's also okay to open your shoulders, not by forcing it, but if you feel more comfortable with your shoulders turned inward, open them once a day, and then return them. Doing more than that could actually make you sick.

Nowadays, I think people who are too strict about health are the ones getting sick. If you pursue "what is right" too much, you overuse your brain, which can lead to hyperventilation or strain on the heart. So, instead of thinking about "what is right," I think it's much better to spend all day thinking about "what brings joy." Eating while thinking about what's right is less beneficial than eating what you want at that moment and truly enjoying it. And it's definitely better if the ingredients you wanted happen to be in that dish. I believe that's the best health regimen.

RieWanting to eat vegetables, or wanting to eat something, means your body is craving it, right?

It's natural to be weak, and people who are weak and human are more wonderful.

MatsuuraI feel like you can stay healthier if you don't overthink things. Most stress is self-inflicted. When I'm at the salon, I can tell the state of a person's stress just by touching their hair. Stress shows up on the scalp and hair before it shows on the skin. For example, if someone comes in after three months of hospitalization, I notice it the moment I run a brush through their hair. The hair texture changes drastically. I make sure to tell people if they have scalp hives or if their scalp is stiff. Those are bad signs.

RieIndeed, balance is important, isn't it? Like the people who are too conscious of health—if they're accumulating stress from it, it defeats the purpose.

MatsuuraThere's even something called "health obsession." I've noticed many people lately who want to see results quickly or change all at once. I always think, you won't get results even if you die. It's better not to get them. That's what it means to be human. It's natural to be weak, and I don't necessarily find strong people wonderful; rather, I always find people who are weak and human more appealing. I want people to aim for imperfect forms.

RieNo one is perfect.

MatsuuraRight, no one is. I feel like it's good to take a break sometimes from striving towards an ideal form. It's not about stopping yourself from moving forward. Meeting people while relaxing your shoulders feels better, fosters kindness, and is modern.

RieYes.

MatsuuraIt's a way of living where, having fully understood pain and weakness, you leave behind a sense of gratitude, saying "Thank you."

It's okay not to be perfect; just be engrossed in each moment.

──What about "feminine beauty"?

MatsuuraWell, these days, everyone is a good woman. It's hard to find someone who isn't a good woman or a good man. They're so wonderful, it sometimes makes my heart race. Sometimes I think, "Let's take it slow."

──As women, we want to enjoy our hair and makeup, right?

MatsuuraWell, that's also less about being a "woman" or a "man." In this line of work, if "beauty" isn't ultimately involved, it doesn't work. But there are people who are naturalists, whose hair is full of split ends and just grows out, and they think, "It's fine because I'm healthy." I can't accept that. I'd just cut it off with scissors! (laughs). Even if you think you're healthy, I want to tell you that your scalp is probably quite damaged.

RiePeople who don't take care of themselves are definitely not healthy!

MatsuuraWanting to be beautiful is health.

RieIt's natural.

MatsuuraYes. Even if you don't think about wanting to be beautiful, you become beautiful when you start caring about your health. But I think everyone is striking a good balance with these things lately.

RieYes. By experiencing various things, we accumulate them in our experience bag. When that bag is full, I feel we gain a sense of composure and balance.

MatsuuraYour range of choices expands. Also, it's not good to have the bag too full; you need to replace old things with new ones and keep up the metabolism. I believe there's no such thing as "goodness that doesn't change"; there's "goodness that must change." Ultimately, there are no perfect forms or answers.

RieIt's okay not to be perfect. I always want to have dreams. Dreams are dreams, and you can say outrageous things. Even if they don't come true, they become nourishment for the soul.



RieAlso, I think it's good to understand that things come full circle. There's yin and yang, right? If there's yin, yang comes, and if there's yang, yin comes... it definitely cycles. If you're at rock bottom, things will get better, and if you're having a great time, knowing that things will change again allows you to enjoy that moment.

MatsuuraExactly. Everyone has the same amount of happiness, so don't worry. I often have realizations like this while talking. That's why conversations are interesting.

RieThis must be fate too (laughs).

──Thank you very much.


Miho Matsuura
After serving as manager of "Roppongi Hair Salon" since the early 1980s, she moved to the UK in 1988. Upon her return, she opened the hair salon "Twiggy." In addition to salon work, she works as a hair stylist, expanding her activities to include advertising shoots, backstage at New York and London collections, and hair show events. She is a pioneer in the fashion world who began focusing on organic approaches. She is currently developing original products.

Rie OMOTO
THREE Makeup Creative Director. After assisting Linda Cantello, she began her career as a makeup artist. As a team member for Tom Pecheux and Pat McGrath, she was involved in numerous collections and handled makeup for fashion magazines and brand advertising campaigns. Active at the forefront of the fashion world, she was recognized as one of the top makeup artists by "WWD" magazine in the US in 2005. Resides in New York.

THREE
0120-898-003
www.threecosmetics.com





With thanks to
Lierre Galerie Himonya
2F Liveon HIMONYA, 3-1-1 Himonya, Meguro-ku, Tokyo
Tel. 03-6452-2623
http://www.furuyadesign.com/