Lounge
May 11, 2015
25th Session: Mitsuo Ma Intersects M.Y. LABEL's Maki Yoshida (4)
The 25th
Everyday Good Design: Special Edition
Dialogue: Mitsuo Ma of TERAKOYA x Maki Yoshida of M.Y. LABEL
"Grand Maison and Its Cutlery".....(4)
In this final installment of our special edition series, we continue our discussion on cutlery. We explore the potential for evolution in terms of functionality, while reaffirming the "richness of objects" that cutlery embodies, born from a long culinary history. Perhaps next time you visit a restaurant, paying attention to the tableware laid out before you might prove interesting!
Composition and Text by Daisuke HataPhoto by Jamandfix
Have Past Cutlery Been a Bit Too Large!?
YoshidaI've been searching for new cutlery, and while European cutlery looks great, I sometimes find it a bit too grand and not very functional. Both in terms of weight and size, they feel slightly too large. What are your thoughts on this, Ma-san?
MaI think that's exactly right. In the past, menus consisted of an appetizer, a main course, and then dessert, so the portion size for each dish was larger. Larger tableware was probably easier to use for eating those generous portions. But now, TERAKOYA's course menus have 12 to 13 dishes. Considering that, I think slightly smaller cutlery might be more suitable.
YoshidaSo that's how you see it too.
MaActually, the shift from pure silver knives and forks to nickel silver was reportedly a great success for Christofle's founder precisely because it overcame the issue of being heavy and difficult to use. He created nickel silver cutlery, and it was a big hit.
YoshidaI see, so even these are lighter compared to classical ones. If times have changed even further, then perhaps it's time for a bit more evolution, isn't it?

As I've mentioned to you before, Ma-san, I've actually always wanted to create cutlery someday. But I don't think it would be with materials like titanium or aluminum. There's a certain stability in weight relative to volume, isn't there? I believe nickel silver is a good material for that.
MaThat's absolutely true. I have titanium cutlery for mountain climbing, but it's not always about being lightweight.
YoshidaIndeed, I have some too, but for some reason, I don't find the food tastes as good when eating with them (laughs).
MaBy the way, are current cutlery designs considering things like weight and the balance of heft when held?
YoshidaThey probably were considered originally, but I wonder about now. It ties into what we discussed earlier (refer to Dialogue Part 1), but I feel like there are many things that are just left as they are, with the attitude of 'this is how it's done.' However, I also feel that prioritizing only functionality might strip away richness.See Dialogue Part 1However, I also feel that prioritizing only functionality might strip away richness.
MaIt diminishes the enjoyment.
YoshidaThat's where the delicate balance for designers lies, and it's also what makes it interesting.
MaIn cooking, we call that 'ajiwai' or 'umami.' Scientifically speaking, I believe 'ajiwai' can be expressed as a percentage. Do we lean towards classic or nouvelle? Do we engage the right or left brain when dining? I think of it as a percentage from 0 to 100. In product design, can't the designer also be the one to decide the percentage of functionality versus design?
YoshidaI see, I've never really thought about it that way before (laughs).

A Corkscrew with Classical Charm and Functional Design
YoshidaThis is also an incredibly classic design, isn't it?
MaI saw on Openers that you like corkscrews, Maki-san, so I thought you'd be pleased.
YoshidaYes, I'm delighted (laughs). But if I were to collect all the classic ones, there would be no end to it, so I have a personal rule to only buy corkscrews that are the sommelier knife type.
MaIndeed, at this point, it's like entering a museum. But this one actually removes corks quite effectively.
YoshidaAh, the angle for removing the cork changes automatically midway. The person who made this was clever. But you don't use this one anymore, do you?
MaNo. Everyone has their own sommelier knife. There have been times when I wanted to have a glass of wine after the service staff had left, but didn't have my knife, so I had to go home to get it (laughs).
YoshidaSo it's strictly a personal tool. It might be like a hairdresser's scissors.
MaYes. Sommelier knives are initially stiff, aren't they? But as you use them, they become smoother, and eventually, you can open and close them with a flick of the wrist. I hardly ever use mine, so it remains stiff.

Cutlery Specialized for Functionality, Unseen in Homes
MaThis large ladle is a punch ladle, used for scooping fruit punch. The smaller ladle is a sauce ladle. In the past, sauces were poured generously, so such tools were necessary. That's why the tureens (familiar as curry containers) for holding sauce were also large. The flat utensil on the right is a cake server for placing cut cake.
YoshidaThese are also products you wouldn't find in a home. By the way, what is this tray used for?
MaIt's used to carry plates to the front of the room, where the uniformed waitstaff would take them and serve the guests. Bringing plates directly from the kitchen to serve is more of a cafe style.
YoshidaI see, that style might also be an element of a grand maison.
MaYes. Consequently, a larger number of service staff is required. The uniformed staff would lift the cloche and explain the dish... performing these ceremonial actions. In the past, they would even reverently present wild birds with feathers still attached, saying, 'We will now prepare this bird for you.'
YoshidaSpeaking of which, isn't it the season for delicious game meat soon?
MaYes. However, there are many regulations now, such as the Washington Convention. For example, thrushes and ptarmigans can no longer be eaten.
YoshidaPtarmigan is a protected species in Japan too. I suppose they taste good, don't they?
MaSo I hear. Of course, I've never eaten one myself.
YoshidaBut if you go to Toyama, I'm sure there are people who eat them (laughs).
MaHuman desire for food is incredible, isn't it? (laughs).
YoshidaThank you for today.

TERAKOYA
3-33-32 Maehara-cho, Koganei-shi, Tokyo
Tel. 042-381-1101
Lunch 12:00 PM - 3:00 PM, Dinner 5:30 PM - 10:30 PM
Closed Mondays and the first Tuesday of every month
http://www.res-terakoya.co.jp
Profile
TERAKOYA Owner Chef
Mitsuo Ma
Born in 1965 at his family's restaurant, TERAKOYA. He grew up surrounded by food and entered the culinary world at the age of 19. He honed his unique culinary style almost entirely through self-study and took over as the third-generation owner chef in 1991. He has created over 3,000 dishes and appeared on cooking shows such as 'Iron Chef.' He is highly respected in the culinary magazine world.