I want to handle both stores and branding, like Milan Vukmirovic

Tomoki Sukezane & "Editor Demon King" (hereinafter, Sukezane)I heard you're starting your own company. How will your relationship with United Arrows change?

Motofumi "POGGY" Kogi (hereinafter, POGGY)Moving forward, I will continue my contract as the director of United Arrows & Sons, while also launching my own company on September 13th.

SukezaneIs there a reason you chose that specific date?

POGGYIt was the best day available (laughs).

SukezaneSo you were looking for a good date. Have you decided on the company name yet?

POGGYI'm considering names starting with 'P' from POGGY, and I have a few candidates right now.

SukezaneWhat do you plan to do with your new company?

SukezaneThere's certainly a trend of established brands seeking rebranding.

POGGYI also love retail spaces, so perhaps it's ambitious, but I'd love to do what Milan (Vukmirovic) did around 2009, designing for Trussardi while also managing the boutique Webster in Miami.

SukezaneMilan is cool. I remember when I started "Fashion News Men" in 2004, he was also the editor-in-chief of "L'Officiel Hommes" at the time, and we exchanged copies of our first issues. After opening Colette in 1997 and serving as creative director and buyer, he became design director at Gucci when Tom Ford was there. He used to call him "Mr. Tom." I wonder what he's up to these days?

POGGYI believe he's currently directing Ports 1961, which is originally a Canadian brand.

SukezaneWow, I didn't know that. That's impressive.

POGGYMilan's momentum back then was incredible.

SukezaneHis success with Colette was remarkable.

POGGYWhen Milan launched Webster, I visited the store, and it was incredibly cool. The famous Parisian caviar restaurant, Caviar Kaspia, was at the entrance. At first glance, it looked like a restaurant with a Miami Deco style, but as you went deeper, there was a shop. The first floor had brands like Billionaire Boys Club and street labels, and upstairs, a large photo of Saint Laurent was displayed, with designer brands lined up. At the time, there weren't many shops with that kind of mixed aesthetic, so it was a huge shock, and just incredibly cool.

SukezaneI haven't been to Webster, but the direction of the early issues of "L'Officiel Hommes" was very much like that. The layout was also great. It was high-end. His direction for Jil Sander was also superb.

POGGYEven looking at it now, it holds up.

SukezaneSpeaking of Milan, before he took on Trussardi, he only wore Hermès, didn't he?

POGGYIs that so?

SukezaneHe changed after starting with Trussardi, but before that, he exclusively wore Hermès. He wore it so effortlessly that it didn't look like Hermès. It's difficult to make it look that way, though (laughs).

POGGYIndeed. I've only ever focused on retail spaces, so I want to learn about branding moving forward. When I thought about who handles both retail and branding, Milan came to mind.

SukezaneThat might be true. Did you know he was a model before starting Colette? Apparently, he visited Japan several times as a model in the 80s.

POGGYReally! Thinking about it that way, Tsuyoshi Noguchi is similar.

SukezaneYes, the trajectory might be somewhat similar.

POGGYWhile Tsuyoshi-san is visible, he also dedicates himself to behind-the-scenes work. That's what's cool. People around me say that if I don't put myself out there, it's meaningless. As someone working behind the scenes, I need to align with the client's desired direction.

SukezaneThe balance where your presence helps a brand stand out is quite clear. Clients might value that the most. Companies often seek a certain level of talent, buzz, or PR.

POGGYAre you set on not opening a store, Sukezane-san?

SukezaneThat's true. People just show up unexpectedly.

POGGYYes. You also used to drop by when I was running L'Echappée Belle, Woman & Tears.

SukezaneIt was close to my office.

POGGYKanye (West) and Virgil (Abloh) also always stopped by when they came to Japan.

SukezaneThat sounds interesting. Were they shopping?

POGGYKanye did some shopping, but he also started eating chicken salad at the central table in the store as soon as he came in (laughs).

Sukezane(Laughs)

POGGYKanye at that time seemed quite wild.

SukezaneHe came alone and ate salad?

POGGYI think he was with a group then. It was around 2007, I believe.

SukezaneI think it was around 2010. When I went to New York, I often stayed at The Mercer Hotel, and Kanye was having breakfast there every morning. I thought he was staying there, but I learned from people around me that he had an office nearby and held his morning meetings there. He was always there with a tattooed, bald woman. It was like, 'There he is again.'

POGGYThat was his partner at the time, wasn't it? I heard later that Kanye moved his meeting location to The Bowery Hotel.

Page02.Kanye West and "Kanye Six": Their Immense Influence

Kanye West and "Kanye Six": Their Immense Influence

SukezaneBy the way, POGGY, what brands or clothing are you interested in right now?

POGGYEven when I was at L'Echappée Belle, I was watching Kanye and the others, and I always felt their influence was strong. However, being in Japan, I think there are many questions like, 'Why do these people have such influence?' or 'Why that brand?'

SukezaneThat might be true.

POGGYI feel like I can explain the reasons for their popularity, as well as the questions everyone has.

SukezanePOGGY, how do you view this situation that has the world buzzing, and the reasons behind its popularity?

POGGYTo put it without fear of misunderstanding, it feels somewhat similar to the idol business. Designers becoming idols themselves to sell clothes.

SukezaneIs Kanye the boss who controls everything? That's interesting. You referred to them as "Kanye Six," didn't you?

POGGYYes, in reference to the Antwerp Six (laughs). There's Virgil, Samuel Ross, Jerry Lorenzo, Heron Preston, Don C, and Matthew Williams, with Kanye providing strong backing as their mentor.

SukezaneI remember around 2009, it seemed like they were all gathered at the Paris Men's Collection venue. I saw you walking behind that group and thought, 'Huh? Is POGGY also a member?' (laughs).

POGGYDon C might love clothes the most. He's also very knowledgeable about vintage clothing.

SukezaneI wonder how such a clothing enthusiast became Kanye's manager?

POGGYI'd love to ask him directly about their first meeting and those details.

SukezaneBut clothes are important, including for Kanye.

POGGYBoth Kanye and Don C are from Chicago.

SukezaneI see. When you mention Chicago, I think of Michael Jordan of the Chicago Bulls. Don C and Virgil were creating a Jordan revival. They really have a love for Jordan.

POGGYThey have a solid story behind them.

SukezaneThat's interesting. Not everyone is from Chicago, right? Heron is from San Francisco, and Jerry?

POGGYJerry is also from California, I believe. His father is the MLB player Jerry Manuel. After retiring as a player, he also managed the White Sox and the New York Mets.

SukezaneThat background probably contributes to him being pushed as an idol-like, second-generation star. Is Virgil also from Chicago? He has handsome features too, reminiscent of Jordan.

POGGYYes. Virgil and Don C run a store called RSVP in Chicago.

SukezaneThat's famous. Have you been there?

POGGYI haven't been to the one in Chicago. This year, they opened a store in downtown LA, and I visited that one. In 2005, NIGO® revealed his home on Takeshi Ochiai's TV show, and that footage had a significant impact on people in the American street scene. I felt that atmosphere in the interior of the RSVP store as well. There were Louis Vuitton trunks stacked up, with Astro Boy figures placed among them.

SukezaneNIGO®, his influence is huge. He's a legend.

POGGYMost of the people I meet in LA say, "NIGO® IS GOD."

SukezaneHe was also on the cover of "Interview" magazine.

POGGYI heard that Jay-Z was the first to notice BAPE STA, which then led to connections with Pharrell Williams and others... but I'd like to ask NIGO® about that again. This time, Virgil released sunglasses with Louis Vuitton, right? When Pharrell, NIGO®, and Louis Vuitton collaborated on the "Millionaire" sunglasses in 2004, it caused quite a stir that someone from the street scene was collaborating with a major maison! I think Virgil recreated them as an homage to the excitement of that moment.

POGGYWhat! Sukezane-san, I want them (laughs).

SukezaneLooking back, they've become rare, gift-like charms. At the time, I didn't think much of them.

POGGYIndeed. I believe NIGO® and Hiroshi Fujiwara were instrumental in connecting fashion and art. Influenced by them, I feel Virgil is now creating a similar wave in a different form. Do you remember the Fendi event in Tokyo around 2007 with NIGO®?

Page03.Virgil's Career Path Shaped by His Encounter with New Guards Group

Virgil's Career Path Shaped by His Encounter with New Guards Group

SukezaneYes, I do. The Ape dolls had Fendi patterns.

POGGYKanye and Don C were also there at that time.

SukezaneIt was a big event. I wasn't in Japan and couldn't go, but I had one of the dolls at home.

POGGYWhat! Sukezane-san, that's also rare (laughs).

SukezaneI think I gave it to my son. He was still young and probably didn't understand its value.

POGGYPerhaps seeing that made Kanye and the others think, 'Maybe we can do something like that too...'

SukezaneRaf was initially interested in contemporary art. He apparently didn't intend to make fashion his profession. However, from another perspective, the fashion he expresses can be seen as contemporary art. Later, when I heard him talk about it, I thought, 'That makes sense.' After becoming the designer for Jil Sander, he transitioned into becoming a creative director, rebranding existing brands. After Dior, and now with Calvin Klein, he's reached the pinnacle.

POGGYIndeed. It's cool how he's incorporating classic American art into clothing at Calvin Klein.

SukezaneHe probably wanted to do that for a long time. Before that, he was presenting at Paris Fashion Week, so perhaps he always had an interest or admiration for American culture. After reaching Dior, he might have felt he had accomplished what he set out to do in Paris. Moving to Calvin Klein makes sense in that context. The advertising expressions of Calvin Klein have always been close to the genderless worldview that Raf has been pursuing.

POGGYThe printing techniques are also cool, with a handcrafted feel.

SukezaneHe likes screen printing, doesn't he? He must have been influenced by Andy Warhol's Factory. I wonder what he'll do next.

POGGYSpeaking of which, is it true that Andy Warhol didn't paint his own works?

SukezaneI wonder. There are various stories, but I've never met him, so I don't know. Perhaps he was like a chef, creating the recipe and having others execute it.

POGGYI think Kanye and Virgil are similar in that regard. In the mid-2000s, they frequently visited Tokyo with plans to launch a brand called PASTEL. They visited several Japanese brands, proposing a collaboration on PASTEL. They had samples made at Phenomenon, and if something wasn't right, they'd ask for revisions. Then they'd approach other brands... I heard one of them visited Hiroshi Kiyoshi's place and discussed making samples. Later, as an extension of that, it's well-known that they asked Walter Van Beirendonck, Raf Simons, and others in Paris for apprenticeships. After being rejected by many brands, Virgil and Kanye apparently interned at Fendi for about a year.

SukezaneThat's hilarious!

POGGYBut it shows the passion they had. People in their position wouldn't need to do that.

SukezaneAround what year was that? That's incredible.

POGGYIt was around 2008 or 2009. This is just my speculation, but perhaps Virgil realized then that designers don't create everything themselves and recognized the importance of a team. After that, he met the Italian group New Guards Group, and his career truly began.

SukezaneSo, he had the ideas and built a team to bring them to life.

POGGYBefore that, Virgil had a streetwear brand called Pyrex Vision. He'd print on Champion items or sell printed flannel shirts sourced from Ralph Lauren Rugby. It was popular then, but later he met New Guards Group. Up to that point, the ideas were interesting, but the quality wasn't great. With New Guards Group backing him, the combination of street ideas and Made in Italy quality amplified its impact.

SukezaneThat's a good combination.

POGGYThe first person to join New Guards Group was Marcelo Burlon. Marcelo, who was a DJ, already had a large following. If he created high-end sweatshirts, it would be easier to reach customers. I was reminded by Kōji Kubo of GR8 the other day: when Marcelo visited Japan previously, we hosted him. During that time, he consulted us about bringing in new talent to New Guards Group, asking if we knew anyone suitable. We recommended Virgil. Later, Virgil actually joined, so perhaps our suggestion was adopted.

POGGY, are you frequently in contact with them?

POGGYI've met all of them. Jerry runs a brand called FEAR OF GOD. In 2014, a designer friend told me, 'There's an interesting brand, you should meet them,' and we arranged to meet Jerry at Soho House in Hollywood. First, he showed me images on his laptop, then asked, 'Do you want to see samples? I brought them,' and led me to the underground parking lot. It was quite a sight when he pulled the samples out of the trunk of his Porsche (laughs). We excitedly tried them on in the parking lot, and that's how our business relationship began.

SukezaneWas it popular at that point?

POGGYIn some circles, yes. It was around their third season, I believe.

SukezaneWas Justin Bieber already wearing it?

Page04.Congratulations on the Launch of POGGY's Series on OPENERS!

Congratulations on the Launch of POGGY's Series on OPENERS!

POGGYJerry was styling Justin Bieber. It seems his brand gained traction after Bieber started wearing it. I feel Jerry expanded Bieber's image by associating him with Black culture.

SukezaneHe was also involved with brands, wasn't he? I read in an article that he moved between about three brands. I feel like I might have met him somewhere.

POGGYHe's also present at show venues. Also, the first time I met Heron Preston was in 2013 when I was invited to a press tour at Nike's headquarters in Oregon. At that time, Heron was guiding the guests as part of the Nike team. I remember thinking he was a handsome guy. Later, Heron was always present at interesting streetwear events. When Virgil was doing Pyrex, the streetwear brand BEEN TRILL was popular, and Heron, Matthew Williams, and Virgil were involved with it. Later, Virgil apparently invited Heron to New Guards Group.

SukezaneAre all of the "Kanye Six" members of New Guards Group?

POGGYOnly Virgil and Heron. Jerry makes clothes in LA, and Don C runs his own thing. Samuel Ross is based in London. He apparently received an offer from Virgil via Instagram. I heard he was helping with graphics for Virgil and Kanye. It's said he produced about 2000 graphics per week. Graphics are a very important element for them, so in that sense, it's similar to the vibe of Ura-Harajuku in the 90s.

SukezaneIs Samuel a graphic designer?

POGGYYes, I believe he studied graphic design at university.

SukezaneThey're shaking up Paris Fashion Week, and their energy is incredible. Looking at them all, they seem very open.

POGGYThey're all good people.

SukezaneI think that's wonderful. Fashion needs to expand in that way. The fact that they're willing to intern, or do whatever it takes regardless of their status, is fascinating and great. And the fact that the whole world knows about it. They say these things so openly, don't they?

POGGYI'd like to ask Takeshi Osumi about that aspect again.

SukezaneRight, Osumi-san is also a musician. He did SWAGGER and then started Phenomenon.

POGGYEven back when Virgil and Kanye were coming to Paris Fashion Week as a group, we had business dealings in America. Phenomenon was highly regarded among people in the street scene. Around that time, Taz, a musician from LA, also came to Paris Fashion Week with Kanye and the others. He had been introduced to me by Osumi-san beforehand. Thanks to those encounters, we were able to sell a triple collaboration between Phenomenon, Taz, and MCM at L'Echappée Belle. Big Bang also came to buy things.

SukezaneYou mentioned that. That store was interesting.

POGGYFrom a business perspective, it didn't work out (laughs), but in the early days, we also carried Supreme. People from Corso Como used to come and shop.

SukezaneThat's right! Supreme is huge now.

POGGYThey even received a CFDA award.

SukezaneThat's amazing.

POGGYTheir collaboration with Louis Vuitton has been a hot topic recently.

SukezaneComme des Garçons also collaborated, and Supreme is consistently popular. When the brand first started, I had a photographer friend in New York – who has since passed away – who brought me a catalog he shot for a brand called Supreme. He said it was a brand started by a few skaters. Back then, Stüssy was popular, so we wondered if it was a copy of Stüssy (laughs). When I asked him why he shot it, he said, 'Because they said they didn't have money.' He told me, 'They thought you'd shoot it even if they didn't have money!' (laughs). And now it's become this huge. Things that emerge from the street are interesting, with a sense of self-reliance. Kanye and the others, despite their names, were willing to intern! Interning, that's incredible. It must have been difficult for Fendi too. Saying, 'Kanye-san!'

POGGYThey couldn't even say, 'Please go get copies' (laughs).

SukezaneIt's like a comedy routine. Amazing. The fashion industry is fascinating. It has that kind of American Dream element.

POGGYSpeaking of which, Neek Lurk of ANTI SOCIAL SOCIAL CLUB is also like that. I first met Neek around 2010 at a vintage store called FRUITION, located a bit outside the main strip in Las Vegas. It was interesting because they sold a mix of Jeremy Scott and hip-hop related vintage clothing. They were also friendly with Stüssy, which was nearby. Neek used to take party snaps at Stüssy fashion events, but back then, he was a peculiar guy who liked Japanese culture. When I gave him some 'adult' souvenirs from Japan, he'd say, 'Thanks, POGGY' (laughs).

Sukezane(Roars with laughter)

POGGYLater, Neek joined Stüssy and started his own brand, BEEN AZN, while managing their Instagram and social media. It was somewhat similar to BEEN TRILL, which Virgil and the others were doing. Then he launched Anti Social Social Club. Initially, he took orders online and shipped them himself, but after Kim Kardashian wore it, it suddenly exploded, and I think he's become quite wealthy now (laughs). It's been a while since someone achieved such success with pure streetwear fashion.

SukezaneHe achieved the American Dream.

POGGYI was surprised. Now, it seems like no one can meet Neek.

SukezaneHe must feel lonely about that, though.

POGGYHe was a really funny guy.

SukezaneYou should keep reminding him, 'I gave you that item, remember?' 'You said thank you, right?'

POGGYHe was incredibly happy (laughs).

SukezanePOGGY, we've decided to start a series with you on OPENERS, covering the topics we discussed today.

POGGYI look forward to it.

SukezaneThank you for your time today.